Do you sit with developers at work?

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This topic contains 17 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by  John 2 years, 7 months ago.

Viewing 18 posts - 1 through 18 (of 18 total)
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  • #9510

    Paul
    Member
    @paul-madden

    I’d be interested to know if testers and developers are sitting together at work or does the dev team and test team tend to be kept apart?

    How does it work where you are working?

    #9517

    Jesper
    Moderator
    @jesper-lindholt-ottosen

    it depends.

    Some projects the developers sit in the same room as the testers. Sometimes the testers sit in another room. Sometimes the developers sit in China or Philippines and the testers in Denmark, sometimes it’s the other way around. but we are not a software shop, but more of a solutions shop. So sometimes the developers are actually more business consultants customizing a COTS tool, while the testers are often actual end users. I know a very successful company that delivers complex software but everyone works at home, from across the globe in small distributed teams.

    Does it really matter that much nowadays?

    #9548

    stefan
    Participant
    @ipstefan

    I also would say it depends what projects you’re working on.
    Usually testers and dev’s sit in some semi-permanent places, but not working together on the same projects all the time.

    Scenario 1: Consider 10 dev teams(20p) & 1 test team(3p). Unless all the developers are sitting all in a circle around the testers it’s not possible to be in the same sitting place.
    Scenario 2: Add to the 10 dev teams above another 10 dev teams & to the test team another 4 teams. Then spread the members over 5-6 countries. Anyone can work with anyone. Guess what happens? Well, everyone is sitting in their place and maybe work with one or more of the devs that are nearest to them from all the projects they are part of.

    #9558

    Cristi
    Participant
    @cristi-preda

    I’ve been in both situation: when dev team was separated by testing team and also when i was designated as a tester for one team (my team)… working together with deLvs is much better in my opinion.

    #9566

    Paul
    Member
    @paul-madden

    So where dev teams and test teams are separated – is communication as effective as it would be face-to-face? How is communications between dev and test managed?

    #9594

    Martin
    Participant
    @martinp

    Paul,

    Yes I do sit amidst developers at work and for the most past that is definitely a good thing and certainly fits the modern views of how development and test should work alongside each other collaboratively. Unfortunately within my organisation I have to deal with some developers who have a very non-collaborative mindset and for that reason I might as well sit apart.

    Regards,
    Martin

    #9612

    Kasper
    Participant
    @kasper

    I have been lucky enough to work closely with the devs for most of my testing career.
    If the teams are physically at the same building / floor, the testers sit with the developers.
    If the team is distributed we use voip, im, video conferencing etc. to recreate being in the same room the best we can.

    #9720

    Paul
    Member
    @paul-madden

    @martinp, how do you work with these developers given their non-collaborative approach? Is there direct communication or an intermediary e.g. a project manager?

    #9731

    Craig Lynch
    Participant
    @craig-lynch

    My team and I (4 staff total) work directly with 2 separate development teams (approx 8 staff in each)

    We are all accommodated together with the furthest on-site developer being 2 banks of desks away (and well within shouting distance!).

    There is direct verbal communications available for on-site staff while the off-site staff are connected via lync (including VOIP).

    The largest challenge I face is ensuring off-site testers (predominantly offshore) understand that direct communication is actively encouraged as a good thing.

    #9956

    Miguel Angel
    Participant
    @megox

    I´m currently in the early stages of a new project and the PM decided to group both developers and testers on the same zone of the office for the first time.

    This allows me to hear and participate on discussions about new functionalities, suggestions and stay tuned on project updates that otherwise i would receive via e-mail or summarized (losing some information, for sure).

    #10029

    Jinxu
    Participant
    @bigyellow

    I am very interesting in this topic, We are now still use waterfall, so all the tester sit together and developer around us. as tester, we are happy, we can communicate very easily, and it seems we have more to communicate among the testers. we share a lot of knowledge on how to test.

    .However, we are going to use SCRUM, in SCRUM, is it better the the testers sit with developer to make a “team” or should we keep the testers sit together?

    #10122

    Paul
    Participant
    @paulcoyne73

    We ARE developers. I think the question should be “do you sit with coders at work?”. Some developers focus on creating code and some developers focus on testing that code. the boundaries can be well defined or they can be blurry to the point of disappearing. But we’re all Developers.

    #10323

    Daria
    Participant
    @daria-gladiuk

    Comparing different project I had, ‘sitting’ together decreased time we spent on task. Usually you spend most time to describe the problem, creating a proper example and so on. I don’t say that sitting together is the best way, but I like brainstorming in any time 🙂

    #10326

    Paul
    Member
    @paul-madden

    Is there anyone who thinks that testers and developers should work separately? That sitting together might be a bad thing? It would be interesting to hear from the developers (or coders as Paul mentioned)…

    #10349

    Jesper
    Moderator
    @jesper-lindholt-ottosen

    Now the trick is to find a context where that would be beneficial – to seperate testers and developers from sitting together… I can only think of command and control organisations. That aren’t really beneficial in the long run, as we know now. Yet, some of them are out there driving projects to the lowest common denominator.

    #15223

    Archana
    Participant
    @archana

    I too believe that testers and developers should sit together. Cannot think of a situation where sitting together could possibly be a bad thing…

    #15239

    Jesper
    Moderator
    @jesper-lindholt-ottosen

    BTW: Unity has a lot of globally distributed teams, and seems to have great success in delivering a great product and attracting great people. Globally diverse teams aids in bringing in the best candidates, I guess.

    #15299

    John
    Participant
    @johnbakiko

    Of course we do. It is quite hard to provide them with proper feedback while you are sitting in different rooms or even floors.

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